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David

Kill-On-Sight; Issue and Response

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I like how ARMA 3 Breaking Point Mod handled it. I think so far its the best in regards to KOSing and Leveling in a survival game. I hate that it didnt make their kickstarter but they are still making it just slowly. 

 

There was I think 7 classes you could choose from. Between Ranger(good guy) to a bandit(bad guy)

 

It was a point/level  system. If you shoot bad guys you gain points and level up when you hit a certain point number. There was 3 levels and each level had a different look so people knew what level you were by your appearance. If you shot one of your own or a "good guy" then you were marked as a traitor and had its own appearance and you were worth ALOT of points to ANYONE that killed you but what this system did was, it made you identify the target before shooting. It rewarded you for being good and penalized you for being bad unless you were a bad guy and shot a good guy then you would good points for it. You also gained points for giving food to other people.

 

I think classes is the way to go to help stop KOSing because you dont have to guess if the guy your talking is bad or good. I am not saying the guy your talking to is not going to kill you but its a little more un likely theyre going to and if they do they should be marked as a bandit or whatever. I just had a thought though, what if there was a karma bar and wherever you are on that karma bar is what you are. So, if you have bad karma then youre marked as a bad guy or if you have good karma then youre a good guy. If a good guy kills a good guy then you lose ALOT of karma but if you kill bad guys you gain karma. I am not sure but i think why people KOS is because they cant trust anyone but if the person sees another person thats like them maybe they wont KOS.

 

I dont know if any of this makes sense or if I even came close to answering OP questions.. Im just spilling it out as i think of it but this is how I have always felt when it comes to KOS and survival games, I always revert back to ARMA3 BP

Edited by Devildog052111

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10 hours ago, Devildog052111 said:

 

I dont know if any of this makes sense or if I even came close to answering OP questions

There were no questions to answer, it's a discussion thread, you made a great post. It makes sense and I like the idea of classes in a faction kind of context.

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2 hours ago, Simulation said:

I feel that the best deterrence for KoS is an absolutely cripplingly high risk vs the reward 

 

Doesn't that make securing a kill more worth it though?

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On 8/29/2018 at 7:37 AM, TheRandomOne2112 said:

I agree that they seem to be trying to put a lid on that as much as they can.


I mean, if I'm being honest, it won't stop me personally from mostly KOS-ing. It's my preferred style of play.  But I respect the efforts they're making. I think they are handling it better than Fallout76. Fallout76 "PvP" is an absolute joke, one of the most carebear like systems I've seen. It's one of my biggest reasons for not wanting to get it. What annoys me is that people instantly call me a griefer because I like to PvP. That's not how that works, but I digress. It'll be interesting to see what actions they take against PvPers like myself and I just hope they don't follow in the footsteps of Fallout76

 

 

I will personally vouch for the fact that the fallout community is not overlapped with the multiplayer pvp community. We don't like players shooting us randomly with no interaction whatsoever in a fallout game. It makes complete sense for bethesda to cater to their fan base. But I can understand why that wouldn't appeal to many others outside of that fan base.

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Interesting discussion for sure!

 

I believe there isn't a clear cut KOS or no KOS answer.  Don't you think you are taking away your element of surprise if there was no KOS at all?  I understand not killing "freshies" as some might call them, where there is clearly nothing to gain.  If you have some sort of sniping rifle on you only and you see another play 100m away that is full gear, is that still considered KOS?  You have a weapon that is designed to work from far away and there is no chance you are interacting with them, I do not see a problem there.

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Ah, but surely killing someone because you saw them and don't or wont interact with them is the definition of Kill On Sight?  You have no reason to aside from 'they have gear i might want' which, aside from being a terrible reason to kill someone if you're playing with even a modicum of decency or, not role-play exactly, but care about the world and its existence in-universe? That sounds like a very uninteresting way to play the game, imo. A apocalypse is all about the people, and the stories they make and share. I just think you'd miss out on so much if you didn't at least try and talk with everyone you met, helping them when you can and them helping you when you need it, both of you adding another page to your own story.

Edited by Onyx

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7 minutes ago, Onyx said:

Ah, but surely killing someone because you saw them and don't or wont interact with them is the definition of Kill On Sight?  You have no reason to aside from 'they have gear i might want' which, aside from being a terrible reason to kill someone if you're playing with even a modicum of decency or, not role-play exactly, but care about the world and its existence in-universe? That sounds like a very uninteresting way to play the game, imo. A apocalypse is all about the people, and the stories they make and share. I just think you'd miss out on so much if you didn't at least try and talk with everyone you met, helping them when you can and them helping you when you need it, both of you adding another page to your own story.

This!

 

The sniping scenario makes sense, but why do it just because you can? Unless you're absolutely starved for gear. It makes more sense if you're trying to protect something, or are watching over your group that is in the area trying to accomplish something for your base or survival. Killing anyone you see just because doesn't strike me as a fun way to play the game, or survive an apocalypse for that matter. I'm sure people are still going to do it. However, you should know that if you are sniping, even if you have a suppressor, you're going to want to change positions pretty much any time you fire just in case there were some infected around that heard the shot. 

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6 hours ago, jooni said:

 

Doesn't that make securing a kill more worth it though?

If the risk for initiating pvp is greater than the potential reward than it disincentive's pvp, some might argue that it defeats the point of pvp entirely, so instead of going the way of fallout 76 I would say disincentive KoS by ramping up the risk factor

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15 minutes ago, Simulation said:

If the risk for initiating pvp is greater than the potential reward than it disincentive's pvp, some might argue that it defeats the point of pvp entirely, so instead of going the way of fallout 76 I would say disincentive KoS by ramping up the risk factor

That's actually the plan right now. Between the zombies honing in on gunfire, the reputation hits from the AI factions on the map, and general community backlash on the server, KoS might not be the best option for a lot of people. Granted, server owners can cater some of the options to match what they want the experience to be. 

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What Regi said. The devs don't exactly won't to shove it down players' throats and punish it too artificially, they want to come up with ways to naturally incentivize people to work together. That said, they do want to leave some room for occasional group pvp as well.

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12 hours ago, LobstahMoney said:

Interesting discussion for sure!

 

I believe there isn't a clear cut KOS or no KOS answer.  Don't you think you are taking away your element of surprise if there was no KOS at all?  I understand not killing "freshies" as some might call them, where there is clearly nothing to gain.  If you have some sort of sniping rifle on you only and you see another play 100m away that is full gear, is that still considered KOS?  You have a weapon that is designed to work from far away and there is no chance you are interacting with them, I do not see a problem there.

Absolutely agreed, without the threat of KOS there's much less tension in meeting people, but with KOS too encouraged, there is alot less fun for people who prefer to make friends over enemies. 

 

In my opinion, making the world tough to survive in might force players into clusters to survive, and naturalize PvP instead of encourage or discourage it.

 

Edit: I just read the Regi and Hank posts and am very happy to see that QI seems to share that sentiment. 

Edited by David

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While I don't know If its been covered my own two cents on this is that, Frankly I am getting too old for KoS Mayhem, it seems a younger mans game a overdone trope that just does not have the same flair it once had 10/15 years ago.

 

That and to be honest I NEVER really found the idea of killing a random stranger appealing, and find it a huge inconvenience that I go about minding my own business fighting the environment but might also have to deal with some asshat (to be blunt there will always be greithers heck Vlog 5 even shows they WANT players to just randomly pull fire alarms on others, But I am talking about raiders mostly) that will steal or just outright destroy my hard (mostly) honest work.

 

Now, while I one of the minority that likes the way 76 handles the PvP (opt in as you feel like) observing the general fandom I feel that what would be best was a idea I think I must have posted about a year ago : PvP and PvE (with a possibility of disabling theft) servers, Plain and simple you then can ether have your survival of the fittest chicken dinner madness or the "lets rebuild Alberta together" lot it splits the players in two...But I think everyone will be happier for it.

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It doesn't need to be "no KOS" or "all KOS".

 

If they have 2 factions and you gain reputation by "killing enemies" and "not killing friendlies" you'll have a lot of fun with it.

 

You'll be able to team up with, or at least ignore people in your faction.

 

There has to be a SEVERE reputation hit for killing friendlies though.  That's the reason all of the other systems failed.

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