Jump to content
Dead Matter
ATTENTION: Due to issues with the new forum update the custom theme has been disabled. The theme will return when all issues have been resolved.
jooni

Delay Discussion

Recommended Posts

I don't think the 2nd delay is most people problems.  It's that you didn't communicate ANY of this till right before the planned release..  That makes people like me wonder if you're vaporware, or lying..  Why would you NOT say anything?

Edited by VicToMeyeZR

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, VicToMeyeZR said:

I don't think the 2nd delay is most people problems.  It's that you didn't communicate ANY of this till right before the planned release..  That makes people like me wonder if you're vaporware, or lying..  Why would you NOT say anything?

Just taking a wild stab at it but I think that there was a mix of concern that people would think it was vaporware, people would ask for refunds, and people would stop funding because half the game's workforce has left. I also think that there was a "We can recover, no one has to know" kind of mentality kind of like bargaining when grieving. They also already had a delay and knew another delay would be inevitable because of this, but probably really wanted to at least try to avoid that. 

 

Over-all I think it's primarily just a mix of grieving and a feeling of dread and desperation that led to the silence, but I don't have anything to back it up solidly.

 

Hopefully the fact that a big chunk of players are okay with there being delays is a large breath of fresh air for the QI team.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, VicToMeyeZR said:

I don't think the 2nd delay is most people problems.  It's that you didn't communicate ANY of this till right before the planned release..  That makes people like me wonder if you're vaporware, or lying..  Why would you NOT say anything?

Im not sure how active you are in the discord, but a lot of the issues in the delay were mentioned when they happened, and at times we even said it might lead to a delay. We also announced this delay five weeks prior to backer release, and several weeks ago to the partners to get their input and feedback on how we should proceed. I dont know why you would wonder if we are "vaporware" or lying since we show daily updates in the discord, some what daily/weekly updates on twitter, and monthly updates through our Vlog on all our platforms.

 

As for developers leaving, here is a well written reason for not announcing that by DogToothCG (our contracted character artist).

Quote
The matter of previous team-members leaving is not something that is ever posted publically, unless it involves massive lay-offs preceding a company going bankrupt (like TellTale), otherwise, it is an internal matter between the employee and the employer, something that requires privacy. When someone leaves mid-project, regardless of the reason, their workload is off-set to the next employee or contractor; in studio environments, this is one of the lower end reasons for running into "crunch", where employees must work 80-100hr work weeks to make their deadlines. In this case, the workload has been offset onto Shirk, who has done a wonderful job maintaining a high level of speed and quality with his asset turn-around.
 
 
 
The transparency that we are looking for is not a daily expenses/deadline modulation type thing, but to keep the community up to date and aware of how things are going with development, whether that be through shirks streams, vlogs, community updates, or sneak peaks. Unfortunately, game-dev is often not very pretty (I'd recommend looking up #blocktober on twitter), and in regards to anything coded, they will require assets to be visualized at all. Due to the atmosphere of indie-dev and the necessity for self marketing, it would be a serious mistake to show off a feature in a test level with whiteboxed assets.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What everyone has to remember, is this is an ALPHA release date, not a release date for a completed game.

 

As much as we want it to nothing in this world runs to plan... that's Murphy's Law. 

 

I have bought games that have been released by the biggest names in the gaming industry and within weeks of the game being released they have put out several major patches... for a supposedly finished game
 

I have no problems with there being a delay. As a backer, i would rather see it done right than rushed just to meet a proposed release date

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know its been asked, and I get good people are hard to find, but what would stop you all from networking four or five more developers? There has to be an Indeed.com or something similar. Your Kickstarter made a good bit of cash. For the record I don't want this to sound like an ass-hat tone or anything. I am genuinely and honestly just curious. Out side of that question I think your team is leagues ahead of any other survival game.  I really cant wait to test this baby out. If that means 10 more weeks, then there isn't any reason to get upset. CUZ GETTING MAD DOESNT CHANGE THE FACTS FOLKS. Just smile and wear sunglasses the wait will be over soon. Merry Christmas

 

    And Shirk 🙌🙏You are the top shelf, for not only shouldering more of this workload, but gracefully keeping up with the forums. Your are a better person that I lol.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, JollyRoger said:

Shirk 🙌🙏You are the top shelf, for not only shouldering more of this workload, but gracefully keeping up with the forums. Your are a better person that I lol.

Shirk is love. 

 

Shirk is life.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, JollyRoger said:

I know its been asked, and I get good people are hard to find, but what would stop you all from networking four or five more developers? There has to be an Indeed.com or something similar. Your Kickstarter made a good bit of cash. For the record I don't want this to sound like an ass-hat tone or anything. I am genuinely and honestly just curious. Out side of that question I think your team is leagues ahead of any other survival game.  I really cant wait to test this baby out. If that means 10 more weeks, then there isn't any reason to get upset. CUZ GETTING MAD DOESNT CHANGE THE FACTS FOLKS. Just smile and wear sunglasses the wait will be over soon. Merry Christmas

 

    And Shirk 🙌🙏You are the top shelf, for not only shouldering more of this workload, but gracefully keeping up with the forums. Your are a better person that I lol.

One of the things about being a remote studio (we all work from home across the country, we dont have a physical location) is that we all need to work well together, like each other, and communicate well with each other, which is hard when its a random person from the internet. Our team is small and intimate, and so bringing on someone we dont know just for the sake of gaining another developer doesn't guarantee they are a good fit for the studio. We've had people in the past work for us that were not a good fit for the team and tension arose, making development more difficult than it needs to be. 

 

The other issue is in the grand scheme of things, the amount of money gathered from the Kickstarter, IndieGoGo, and our website is a minuscule amount of funding needed in a project, and not nearly enough to hire professionals full time (developmental budgets for games, especially ambitious games like ours are usually in the $1,000,000+ range). Developers worth their weight are very expensive. We just dont, and never have had the resources to hire a ton of people to work on Dead Matter without paying them at or below minimum wage, below their worth, unless they have as strong passion for the game as we do (which lets face it, most people looking for jobs arent searching for passion). 

 

Hopefully that clears some stuff up for you. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Shirk said:

The other issue is in the grand scheme of things, the amount of money gathered from the Kickstarter, IndieGoGo, and our website is a minuscule amount of funding needed in a project, and not nearly enough to hire professionals full time (developmental budgets for games, especially ambitious games like ours are usually in the $1,000,000+ range). Developers worth their weight are very expensive. We just dont, and never have had the resources to hire a ton of people to work on Dead Matter without paying them at or below minimum wage, below their worth, unless they have as strong passion for the game as we do (which lets face it, most people looking for jobs arent searching for passion). 

 

 

Honestly, if my experience with game development wasn't so miniscule I'd offer to help just because the game will be amazing and I'm one of those passionate people. 

 

The only people really affected by the delay are backers that were getting an alpha anyway since afaik you hadn't set a release date for the full game. On the plus side, it gives me more time to finish games I would probably have dropped for a few months because of Dead Matter. Keep up the amazing work. Glad to see the devs aren't... Shirking their duties. (Sorry, I'll leave for that bad joke)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, khaltzane said:

 

Honestly, if my experience with game development wasn't so miniscule I'd offer to help just because the game will be amazing and I'm one of those passionate people. 

If the game wasn't so far along I would honestly ^^^ second that. I would be willing to learn some shtufff and try and help, but it takes months of training. 

 

I know its light years ahead, but back when Source SDK was the hip new thing I spent thousands of hours building maps, learning from my mistakes and troubleshooting. I never could get 3d skyboxes right but it was so much fun, side note there was nothing more rewarding then playing your map with a server full of people.. anyway im back from memory lane.  In the end Thank you for the hard work thus far, Alpha will be worth the wait. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, jooni said:

We’d have to teach you, or show you. Both unfortunately take time we don’t have.

Nagol sent me a tutorial vid I think it pretty good for UE 4.2.

 

19 hours ago, khaltzane said:

 

Honestly, if my experience with game development wasn't so miniscule I'd offer to help just because the game will be amazing and I'm one of those passionate people. 

 

The only people really affected by the delay are backers that were getting an alpha anyway since afaik you hadn't set a release date for the full game. On the plus side, it gives me more time to finish games I would probably have dropped for a few months because of Dead Matter. Keep up the amazing work. Glad to see the devs aren't... Shirking their duties. (Sorry, I'll leave for that bad joke)

 

18 hours ago, JollyRoger said:

If the game wasn't so far along I would honestly ^^^ second that. I would be willing to learn some shtufff and try and help, but it takes months of training. 

 

I know its light years ahead, but back when Source SDK was the hip new thing I spent thousands of hours building maps, learning from my mistakes and troubleshooting. I never could get 3d skyboxes right but it was so much fun, side note there was nothing more rewarding then playing your map with a server full of people.. anyway im back from memory lane.  In the end Thank you for the hard work thus far, Alpha will be worth the wait. 

 

Check out this vid:




If you two mess around with UE maybe you can prepare mods for when the game launches. 😁

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/9/2018 at 12:11 PM, Shirk said:

Im not sure how active you are in the discord, but a lot of the issues in the delay were mentioned when they happened, and at times we even said it might lead to a delay. We also announced this delay five weeks prior to backer release, and several weeks ago to the partners to get their input and feedback on how we should proceed. I dont know why you would wonder if we are "vaporware" or lying since we show daily updates in the discord, some what daily/weekly updates on twitter, and monthly updates through our Vlog on all our platforms.

 

As for developers leaving, here is a well written reason for not announcing that by DogToothCG (our contracted character artist).

 

I don't follow everything on every discord channel, so I follow by Youtube videos and announcements.  I didn't say tell when people leave, but you could mention it months ago, that you (once again) wouldn't probably meet the deadline.  We DID pay for you to build this game after all. Some of us don't have the time to be following every comment on discord.  

I'm not wondering if your vaporware, or lying.  I said it MIGHT make believe believe that.  It's not un-heard of to be lied to from developers.

 

When people back your project on Kickstarter, its in good faith.  All we ask in return is good communication. (not just discord, or partners..)  We all backed you!!

 

On 11/9/2018 at 11:41 AM, David said:

Just taking a wild stab at it but I think that there was a mix of concern that people would think it was vaporware, people would ask for refunds, and people would stop funding because half the game's workforce has left. I also think that there was a "We can recover, no one has to know" kind of mentality kind of like bargaining when grieving. They also already had a delay and knew another delay would be inevitable because of this, but probably really wanted to at least try to avoid that. 

 

Over-all I think it's primarily just a mix of grieving and a feeling of dread and desperation that led to the silence, but I don't have anything to back it up solidly.

 

Hopefully the fact that a big chunk of players are okay with there being delays is a large breath of fresh air for the QI team.

I'm ok with delays.  I understand them.   I am involved with a project myself.  It's the nature of the business.  Communication, since they chose this method of funding, is the important part.  I don't think "5 weeks" classifies, since I am pretty sure he had a good idea Q4 wasn't happening.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, VicToMeyeZR said:

I don't follow everything on every discord channel, so I follow by Youtube videos and announcements.  I didn't say tell when people leave, but you could mention it months ago, that you (once again) wouldn't probably meet the deadline.  We DID pay for you to build this game after all. Some of us don't have the time to be following every comment on discord.

He didn't mean to imply that you need to be on discord specifically to keep updated with necessary information, only that the major events contributing to the delay weren't something that they were actively trying to hide. With that said, indie-game development is a very fluid process and there are many factors involved that make it difficult to predict accurate timeline estimates and how these events would impact their deadlines. The length of the original delay was meant to account for potential issues, so until more time passed they wouldn't be able to reliably gauge if they could or couldn't reach their previously set release dates with increased work efforts. Without knowing for certain that they couldn't make the release date, it would be irresponsible of them to prematurely announce another delay, and cause undue concern to the community should they come to find out later it would be unnecessary.

 

The devs are extremely communicative of development progress, but being totally transparent about internal business matters is something that is very risky and problematic, hence why companies in general don't tend to be outspoken about these things unless it's absolutely necessary, and even then not until the time is right. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, VicToMeyeZR said:

When people back your project on Kickstarter, its in good faith.  All we ask in return is good communication. (not just discord, or partners..)  We all backed you!!

 

There are issues with announcing an employee departing especially when they do not want it to be mentioned, respecting their privacy is a concern that needs to be considered on our part.

 

We’ve taken steps to bring ourselves back up to full strength, Dead Matter has progressed immensely and we have a newfound sense of synergy on the team.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

a small delay is no issue, and if you didnt know about it well now you do, which sucks, but hey look at it this way, Dead Matter team has not only been making updates to twitter with things they have done all the time, they have been vocal  with the community via forum and discord, and they are making progression better than most pre-alpha games ive seen. and communication works both ways : if a dead matter dev makes an announcement and im not there to hear it, did it ever really happen!?!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not bothered, at all.

 

These things happen, guys. I'm still looking forward to a phenomenal survival game.

 

A part of me expected it, since I've seen many titles come about that faced delays that I was not proud of. I grew up, I changed, and realized that hard work WILL pay off and delays in a great product are EXPECTED.

 

Don't sweat it. I'll still be here and I ain't going anywhere.

 

Take care of yourselves, take care of your team, and most IMPORTANTLY, support each other and fight through adversity. A strong team is the greatest weapon no one knows about.

Edited by Floofie
missed a word

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have NO issue with waiting until the game is done to play. As some have said before me, I would MUCH rather have a FULL and LESS BUGGY/COMPLETE game than be able to play a partial game earlier. 

 

That being said, is there an estimated release date at this point? I have plenty of things to keep me occupied, and do not mind waiting as long as it takes - I'm just curious.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
43 minutes ago, Srelie said:

I have NO issue with waiting until the game is done to play. As some have said before me, I would MUCH rather have a FULL and LESS BUGGY/COMPLETE game than be able to play a partial game earlier. 

 

That being said, is there an estimated release date at this point? I have plenty of things to keep me occupied, and do not mind waiting as long as it takes - I'm just curious.

The delay is estimated to be about 8-10 weeks long. Around that time the devs will make an announcement on how they feel about the state of the game and if they think it's ready.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In all honesty I have backed a lot of early access games and delays are a given. I honestly don't even get upset when they don't release or just plain suck. The reason being is I don't feel I am paying for a game but rather for an idea that I hope makes it to a physical game and be a part of that experience. It is a gamble as these are small teams and most of the time their first game and should be treated as such. To expect or demand anything more is pure entitlement and those people should only buy completed games and never visit kick starter. The key to happiness in life is to lower your expectations.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am  a little late to this thread but I wanted to put my 2 cents in.

 

I am not worried about the delay/s and other people shouldn't be either. You can just tell this game is going to make it unless something catastrophic happens. Devs are very active with the community, The community it self is great, Information about the game is released often if not daily. Keep up the good work and have delays if you need it, the butt hurt people will thank you later when they're playing your game.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/21/2018 at 9:46 AM, Zombiewarpig said:

In all honesty I have backed a lot of early access games and delays are a given. I honestly don't even get upset when they don't release or just plain suck. The reason being is I don't feel I am paying for a game but rather for an idea that I hope makes it to a physical game and be a part of that experience. It is a gamble as these are small teams and most of the time their first game and should be treated as such. To expect or demand anything more is pure entitlement and those people should only buy completed games and never visit kick starter. The key to happiness in life is to lower your expectations.  

As much as I'd like to agree with your sentiment, kickstarter is not a charity, and for every kickstarter project that fails to deliver or falls sub-par to backer expectations there's another potential backer who might be put off of backing some body else's campaign.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What Simulation said. The sentiment is indeed greatly appreciated, but Kickstarter isn't a charity and the devs don't consider it as such either. It's ok for people to be upset, it's understandable and they're within their rights to be. The only thing we ask of people here is that they try to understand the reasons for the delay and to discuss it rationally and respectfully.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...