About survival games

Swoosh

Member
Hello, so the game looks very good, but there been so many survival games and they always fail, look at DayZ, when you enter the forum ppl always complaining about hunger and no loot and all that stuff, same with h1z1, nobody could find any loot and it died so they shutted it down..miscreated also is dead, and people complaining there too about the bad looting, its always the loot and hunger problem.

So you think dead matter will die too? ppl crying first day over the bad loot and hunger problems xD
 
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drunkpunk

Backer
Eh those games died because of bigger issues than finding loot. H1Z1 was mismanaged from the start, and DayZ was "fundamentally flawed" according to its creator, which I cannot disagree with.

I think Dead Matter has a serious opportunity here given the scope of the game is bigger than both H1Z1 and DayZ. I think it will largely depend on how their vision evolves along with the game, and their approach with the community. I'm not totally convinced yet, but I think this is the most promising survival zombie game to date, and there is more potential here than any of its predecessors.
 

Swoosh

Member
Eh those games died because of bigger issues than finding loot. H1Z1 was mismanaged from the start, and DayZ was "fundamentally flawed" according to its creator, which I cannot disagree with.

I think Dead Matter has a serious opportunity here given the scope of the game is bigger than both H1Z1 and DayZ. I think it will largely depend on how their vision evolves along with the game, and their approach with the community. I'm not totally convinced yet, but I think this is the most promising survival zombie game to date, and there is more potential here than any of its predecessors.

Ye maybe bigger issues, but still thats the first thing i see ppl complaining about in forums, in every survival game. go to dayz forum on steam now, you will find food complaining right now

Thats what sucks with most survival games, ppl complaining about it and they quit,other ppl reading about it and its over.

I have got the game so i really hope they have done a good job! :)
 

drunkpunk

Backer
Ye maybe bigger issues, but still thats the first thing i see ppl complaining about in forums, in every survival game. go to dayz forum on steam now, you will find food complaining right now

Thats what sucks with most survival games, ppl complaining about it and they quit,other ppl reading about it and its over.

I have got the game so i really hope they have done a good job! :)
that's a little funny, considering stuff like finding food is part of the core of a survival game. I will admit some games are a little too heavy handed with the frequency of eating/drinking to survive so I can understand it to some degree, but I haven't played DayZ in many years so I can't really comment on that one. It is the kind of thing that requires a good balance or the mechanic is either incredibly underwhelming and might as well not be there, or way too frequent and incredibly frustrating. I do believe we'll have the ability to tweak this kind of stuff, and so long as the devs are receptive to the right feedback I don't expect that sort of thing to be handled poorly.
 

Dark Drakan

Member
So long as the basic frame work systems are there for varying play styles from the get go then after the initial spike in player numbers at launch it should even out to a steady player base. The biggest issue with survival games at launch is lack of things to do and they seem to push people into pure PvP for sheer lack of anything else to keep them engaged.

Most are simply a cycle of:
- Loot until geared
- Find other players & have a shoot out
- Kill them and take more loot you dont actually need
- Find more players with the extra loot & repeat until you die and do it over again.

Most players die of dehydration and hunger when they are simply running around the maps looking for weapons and not paying attention to the other styles of play and dont play smart and conserve their energy/food/water. Also when some games have your meters running low after 5-10mins it makes it a real chore to have to keep eating and drinking constantly that you dont have time to try ANYTHING else if you are merely hunting for scraps for hours and cant venture too far for fear of finding nothing and dying quickly.

If the AI is enough of a challenge and there are some interesting events in the game that could tempt people to team up and maybe even create little communities then that is where the potential longevity lies. Having a lot of individuals all fighting over the best weapons and armour will only keep people happy for so long.
 
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Azz

Member
that's a little funny, considering stuff like finding food is part of the core of a survival game. I will admit some games are a little too heavy handed with the frequency of eating/drinking to survive so I can understand it to some degree, but I haven't played DayZ in many years so I can't really comment on that one. It is the kind of thing that requires a good balance or the mechanic is either incredibly underwhelming and might as well not be there, or way too frequent and incredibly frustrating. I do believe we'll have the ability to tweak this kind of stuff, and so long as the devs are receptive to the right feedback I don't expect that sort of thing to be handled poorly.
Like you say food is part of a survival game but when that is 90% of the game i becomes pointless as you never get to leave the starting area without starving to death. Dayz messed it right up, lack of food and noob area campers screwed dayz up.

Food and drink should be like 20% of survival as in real life catching simple things like rats or rabbits is easy (even earth worms). Looking for weapons again stupid as simple sticks and rocks and you can make some good tools and weapons. Scum as started to get it right after many patches. There are now lakes/rivers where you can drink from and wild bushed with berries, mushrooms and the odd field with carrots or cabbages etc bit like real life.
I can also go longer than a few hours without food and water without dying of starvation like in DayZ.

DM is supposed to be heavy into realism so very interested how they make it work.
 
Food and insta-gibbed bambi's were among the things I did not enjoy in DayZ.

I also hope that the food issue is not as overwhelming and random, forcing some (many?) people to resort to and accept cannibalism as an every-day solution, or simply die after a few hours because they couldn't even find insect grubs, wild vegetables, and small, furry critters. While a good addition so normies could have awareness of people-eaters, the symptoms of Creutzfeldt-Jakobs disease/Kuru/Prion Neurodegenerative Disease should be feared, rather than a mere inconvenience.

ME: Welcome to Chernarus, survivor! Quick! We need to get to cover or...
HER: [stop moving] [stops breathing]
ME: Well. Crap. She died of starvation already? I'll go help that freshie over there... Hallo survivor!
HIM: Hi! Where am [head explodes in a welter of blood and brains]
ME: HOLEY CARPENTER! [runs for cover]
ME: Oh hi there! Did you see where that sniper might be?
HIM #2: Heehee haahaahaa! I dunno. They're somewhere... hehehe... around the hunting stand, I think? Ahahaha! I'm really hungry. You look healthy! HAHAHA!
ME: Oh f*ck.
 
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zombr1an

Member
For me I see a lot of replay ability through single player. DM offers so much for an enjoyable single player experience. NPC's(friendly or not), quests, occupations/perks, hardcore/permadeth(intended for the future), and mod support.

NPCs like zombies, bandits, etc, will be able to make the world feel alive enough and give enough of a challenge I expect. I don't want to deal with KOS or griefers unless I desire some PvP.

Quests of course will give you more to do, and is pretty standard for single player games.

Occupations/perks will provide the opportunity for different builds and playthroughs. Sure you can do that in multiplayer but I already see people are trying to figure out a meta for the best/worst occupation/perks to choose online. Only problem for single player is there are perks that wouldn't work, so I'm hoping that more perks become available. Maybe some single player specific perks to make up for the ones that are only good for multiplayer.

Hardcore/permadeth would work well with trying out different occupation/perk builds too. It would also give more meaning to the phrase "plan accordingly" since you will lose everything.

Mod support gives endless possibilities to customize the game to your liking, and you might not be able to find a server that has the mods that interest you. Sure you could host a server, but that's only really worth it if you intend to play with others, and even then people may not be interested in what you choose.

All in all, I'm glad they have single player as a choice. I'm not saying I won't check out multiplayer, but when it comes to survival games, I usually prefer playing single player anyways. If I'm looking for some form of PvP I'll go to a multiplayer server, or just play a game like EFT.
 

Kung

Member
So long as the basic frame work systems are there for varying play styles from the get go then after the initial spike in player numbers at launch it should even out to a steady player base. The biggest issue with survival games at launch is lack of things to do and they seem to push people into pure PvP for sheer lack of anything else to keep them engaged.

Most are simply a cycle of:
- Loot until geared
- Find other players & have a shoot out
- Kill them and take more loot you dont actually need
- Find more players with the extra loot & repeat until you die and do it over again.

Most players die of dehydration and hunger when they are simply running around the maps looking for weapons and not paying attention to the other styles of play and dont play smart and conserve their energy/food/water. Also when some games have your meters running low after 5-10mins it makes it a real chore to have to keep eating and drinking constantly that you dont have time to try ANYTHING else if you are merely hunting for scraps for hours and cant venture too far for fear of finding nothing and dying quickly.

If the AI is enough of a challenge and there are some interesting events in the game that could tempt people to team up and maybe even create little communities then that is where the potential longevity lies. Having a lot of individuals all fighting over the best weapons and armour will only keep people happy for so long.
Nailed it 👍
 
I get that there have been quite a few attempts at zombie survival games, but I'm sure you've all heard that quote about the invention of the lightbulb. Eventually, someone's bound to get it right, but only if there is someone willing to persevere. I am not one to pooh-pooh any and all further attempts to make such a game.

Everyone can name some titles that utterly failed. One that was on my radar a while back was "The Dead Linger" by another indie studio called "Sandswept". That one never even made it out of development.

But we do have some games out there that did end up doing quite well at delivering on their stated goals. 7DaystoDie is still alive and has gotten quite a facelift since I last played. There is also the State of Decay series, which I thought gave us a very unique experience. Undead Labs is bound to keep adding entries to that franchise.

And of course there's always Project Zomboid. I heard Days Gone had its moments too.
 

B-A-N-G

Member
Most are simply a cycle of:
- Loot until geared
- Find other players & have a shoot out
- Kill them and take more loot you dont actually need
- Find more players with the extra loot & repeat until you die and do it over again.
You just described the current state of Escape from Tarkov. Unless people actually think that having to snipe people with a TOZ is fantastic quest design.

I have never played a zombie-themed game, primarily because I felt overwhelmed by zombie themed content from both TV and gaming, and shooting things that not only don't shoot back and do not take cover or run away seemed kind of pointless (I like what I hear that in DM the zombies will actually present a challenge not just ammo/sprint calculations). I also never played a DayZ style survival game (I have watched several hours of streams) primarily because I spent over a decade in Africa where we were heavily trained in survival, and a lot of survival time is spent conserving energy and hydration, walking vigilantly, waiting for the right time of day/night to do whatever you need to do next, ensuring you haven't made any decisions that will end up being fatal (like not checking your legs for open cuts before proceeding through an area with standing water), and respecting the role and impact of both incredibly dangerous and incredibly helpful animals and plants, and that seems hard to model in a game.

There is a plant in the river valleys of south-central Africa that, if you cut one of its vines, you can trickle nutrient-rich water into your mouth a drop at a time. It takes about 5 minutes of standing there with your head straight up, holding this vine just above your mouth, as each droplet comes down, just to start getting a few drops. But, if any part of the opened vine touches your skin, you will experience the most horrendous swelling, itching rash you cannot even imagine. If it touches your tongue, it will swell it until it chokes you to death. Yet the water within is far more reviving and nourishing than any drink mankind has dreamed up and just a few ounces will keep you going for the day. You will not find many greater periods of concentration in your life than standing under that vine for 10 mins.

The need to compress time for gameplay purposes ends up being the hardest thing for the game designers, from what I have seen. IRL you can go many days without taking in anything other than properly treated water and sufficient electrolytes, yet in games that's just not practical. Very few people have the patience to sit absolutely still for 30 minutes in a game, paying maximum attention to what's happening. We had to spend hours being perfectly still and quiet (and not in an air conditioned Land Rover or a protected hide) so we could get the chance to watch a leopard in its hunting ground, or, more ominously, see if poachers we heard shooting in the next valley were coming our way.

Of course, this is Alberta not Africa. If the game balances out consequences of actions and the time needed to carry out actions, and it is not a shoot, loot and scoot repetitive experience, it would be something I invest time, money and effort into. As it is, they have the most money I could give them at this time.
 
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