Punishment System for KOSers

ByZ_Hellas

New member
Not sure if another thread was made regarding this, but it would be nice to be able to have more friendly encounters with people instead of being slaughtered on sight constantly such as in some other survival games.

My main idea on how to combat this is to add a worsening state of psychosis the more people you kill (if they are not the aggressors). Over time, your character may "hallucinate" and hear noises such as footsteps or gunfire (such as was mentioned in a perk disussion or so) and eventually interfering with weapon handling. These debuffs should hopefully dissuade people from just killing anything that moves.

I don't have many other ideas for how to combat this but post your ideas below.
 

ByZ_Hellas

New member
Nah. I would vote against heavy-handed gamey mechanisms like that. or situation where the game itself tracks your behaviors and issues bounties, like in Fallout 76.

I would prefer a more realistic option to discourage KOSing- like a strong faction reputation system [LINK], with the factions issuing bounties.
I can see that, I was thinking that this system might really end up forcing players to go a certain path instead of being more free to make their own choices with their own consequences.
 

Zom2D2

Well-known member
Not sure if another thread was made regarding this, but it would be nice to be able to have more friendly encounters with people instead of being slaughtered on sight constantly such as in some other survival games.

My main idea on how to combat this is to add a worsening state of psychosis the more people you kill (if they are not the aggressors). Over time, your character may "hallucinate" and hear noises such as footsteps or gunfire (such as was mentioned in a perk disussion or so) and eventually interfering with weapon handling. These debuffs should hopefully dissuade people from just killing anything that moves.

I don't have many other ideas for how to combat this but post your ideas below.
I don't think that particular angle, but I support more consequences than just a faction rating. A griefer isn't going to care about that. People who go about KOSing everyone shouldn't have any incentive to.

No factions for them.
Stolen loot shouldn't be sellable, just usable.
Bounties that players can set for people who fit the profile (people with # of kills in short time period).
Bounties that factions set for players that just kill NPCs in said faction (again, # of kills in time period).
Both NPCs and Players should be able to collect the bounties.

Rewarding people for keeping the peace and punishment for people just wreaking havoc because that's how they get their jollies off.
 

Bourgmestre

Active member
I support every bit of sanity problem after horible act or vision, but i don't think this have to be tied with some sort of punishment for killing multiple other player.

I mean, ok Kos can be a pain to deal with, sure there are people who like fk with other more than they like playing the game fair, but it's a sandbox survival lady & gentlemen. Therefore even if there are playstyle that are agressive and agains what we think is good, that doesn't mean those playstyle must be punish more than someone who just play by the rule.

Those who have the easy trigger will draw more zombie attention to them, and this is fine by me.
If the game start to cut his sound, vision, other, just to prevent people to shoot each other well... That mean some playstyle are favorised and other neglected, and the inherent liberty of choice will be reduce.

(plz note that i don't wan't the game to be a pvp lootfest, but maybe that's not what wan't other player, so a compromise must be found)
 

Zom2D2

Well-known member
Those who have an easy trigger will draw more zombies to that area, sure, but not necessarily to them specifically. They should be drawn to the sound -- if you blast a shotgun, and then book it, they'll go where the sound was, not who made it.

The issue with KoSers is that they do it because there are no consequences for doing it. Sure, you could try and report the player, but if there isn't anything to back up the report, it's just one person word against another. Some people record their sessions, and that's great, but I don't stream and I don't screen record.

I know that people don't want any consequences to their actions because it's a game, but you also don't want the trolls from all these other games. Why do you think those games have trolls? Because there's no reason not to be, there's no real downside. Why not change that and punish players for going out of their way to ruin the experience for someone else?
 

Angry Viking

New member
The idea for hordes to be spawned at the sound of gunfire is a good idea
Like a few scenes in the walking dead when shots were fired made the scene tense and the dead would wander in! It keeps players on the move and learn to use more stealthy tactics. Like melee combat will kinda be encouraged atleast that way in a close combat situation the playing is kinda equalised.
 

acrosome

Well-known member
The issue with KoSers is that they do it because there are no consequences for doing it. Sure, you could try and report the player, but if there isn't anything to back up the report, it's just one person word against another.
That's why I keep proposing a very comprehensive faction reputation system, including bounties- so there are consequences. But if someone wants to go bandit and are willing to suffer within that system, so be it. Balance the reputation system's harshness to achieve the level of murderhoboing that you're willing to tolerate. Because there will always be crime, a.k.a. "griefing" if you insist upon calling it that despite the absolute fact that it is in-genre for zombie survival games. So make it content through the use of a faction reputation and bounty system, instead of just something to be endured and bitched about.

One option might be to track faction reputation by the player rather than by the character, on any given server. Piss off too many factions on one server and you may have to migrate to another one and try again.

And I am quite certain that there will also be many PvE servers for people like you, Zom. So, really, you don't need to obsess about this.

In a survival game what would you report them for? Surviving? It's in-genre to murderhobo on occasion, and form vendettas.

The idea for hordes to be spawned at the sound of gunfire is a good idea
No it isn't. That's a terrible idea. That's everything I hate about games like Ghost Recon: Breakpoint where the enemies magically teleport right to you. Just calibrate how far they can hear a gunshot and come running to meet your goals.
 

Zom2D2

Well-known member
Or, instead of dismissing it, you could have a proactive system against it instead of reactive.
 

Zom2D2

Well-known member
And there's a difference between in game crime and people doing nothing but killing players because it's funny. You can have enemies on the game that don't just kill everyone they see or go around killing players over and over again. You might think that's normal gameplay, but it's not. Normal gameplay is survival, not killing everyone else and getting away with it.

Why is it that you twist everything I say into something else? Why are you making this into a petty argument?

I realize that players will kill other players. That's inevitable. I get that some will do it en masse in raids and such. But that's not the same as KoSers who just do it to do it. That's not the same as spawn campers who do it. I really don't get where a "comprehensive faction system" is being attacked (aside from making more work for the devs) and why you think what I'm saying is just "hey, MrBill0hN000 killed me!"

I'm bringing up a legitimate point. Griefers exist. People troll players all the time. Why give them the ability to when you can still have your active and comprehensive faction system (which isn't a bad idea), and cut the "Bandit" camp? Why give someone the ability to grief when you can have a system that punishes them for it, and ALSO works with what you're proposing? What's the issue?
 

myco_ds9

New member
In order to dis-incentive a player to KOS all the time, he must risk losing something that he care about. If to be an effective KOSer you need to develop your character over a long time such as learning to become an effective sniper and acquiring the guns & ammo then if you get killed and you can't just respawn nor get easily your loot back then you will think twice about having a community against you. I'm not against KOS because I think in a real apocalypse it may very well be a way of life for a certain time but definitly not sustainable. Also, if the game has a form of permadeath it would also play in the KOS psychology but I think that the most important aspect is to slow down character evolution to make your character more valuable to you over time, and not willing to risk losing him in short term gratification.
 

Nitro

Member
All ya gotta do is use your in game radio and contact the 8-10 man role playing police force. Give them a little something for the effort and continue your grind man. Oh I cant wait for this game.
 

Zom2D2

Well-known member
In order to dis-incentive a player to KOS all the time, he must risk losing something that he care about. If to be an effective KOSer you need to develop your character over a long time such as learning to become an effective sniper and acquiring the guns & ammo then if you get killed and you can't just respawn nor get easily your loot back then you will think twice about having a community against you. I'm not against KOS because I think in a real apocalypse it may very well be a way of life for a certain time but definitly not sustainable. Also, if the game has a form of permadeath it would also play in the KOS psychology but I think that the most important aspect is to slow down character evolution to make your character more valuable to you over time, and not willing to risk losing him in short term gratification.
I agree, to be effective, they must lose something important to them. But this isn't just about killing on sight to me, this is about players going around and killing as many people as they can, because they can, just because they think it's funny to take their shit in game.
Like...in GTAV, you have people that shoot you on sight. You also have people who run tanks through town, or jets, or whatever, blowing up things left and right because they just want to destroy everything and they enjoy the players losing whatever they're doing. I'm not taking about just blowing up cops and then running from them, I'm talking pure anarchy for the sake of anarchy.

I totally understand about the reality of people just shooting other people first because paranoia, and how it could be roleplaying, I do. I get it. But if you have someone going around and killing people just to kill them, over and over again, hunting down TrebleMakee2160 over and over again, it stops being just realistic roleplay and ends up being harassment.

People that are harassing other players don't care about much. If you take away their incentive to do so, then they'll do it less, or at least make it a point that they're not roleplaying it out? I'm not saying that you can't kill the same person more than once, but say 10 times in a few minutes? That's not roleplaying, that's harassment.

Slowing down character development and making long lasting changes/goals is great, but that would make it worse when someone just kills you for the sake of killing you and taking your shit.


All ya gotta do is use your in game radio and contact the 8-10 man role playing police force. Give them a little something for the effort and continue your grind man. Oh I cant wait for this game.
That's funny, but not really viable if you don't have those people, or if they are the ones who are doing it. But yeah, if they're available to do that, then cool, they can also be a part of curbing that harassment. It's still better to have no incentive to harass others, isn't it?


This game is supposed to be PvE, not PvP, at least that's what I read of the main focus. Making another Rust, but with Zombies, isn't all that great. And yeah, I understand, "haha I suk @ teh gamez git gud!!" but I really don't think anyone ruining the experience for someone else is a good thing. I'm sure you guys don't either.

Regardless of how they do whatever they do, hopefully there's some way to deal with the trolls and not the people just trying to fall into the bleakness of a zombie apocalypse as roleplay/immersion.
 

Epsilon

New member
This has been a problem through time immemorial and I can imagine there being many possible attempts at solutions. The problem is that it is a game after all. Inherently (at least the non-insane or trained) folks have a natural tendency to spare lives. I reckon you can add as many solutions as you please, but you're still going to have those trolls/harassers/etc as you've all mentioned popping up in nearly any situation. My opinion is that it is up to the community that you choose to play with. If a community supports PvP or PvE or any combination therein, so be it. Choose the best community to play with, tailored to your expectations, and you should have a good time.
 

Zom2D2

Well-known member
This has been a problem through time immemorial and I can imagine there being many possible attempts at solutions. The problem is that it is a game after all. Inherently (at least the non-insane or trained) folks have a natural tendency to spare lives. I reckon you can add as many solutions as you please, but you're still going to have those trolls/harassers/etc as you've all mentioned popping up in nearly any situation. My opinion is that it is up to the community that you choose to play with. If a community supports PvP or PvE or any combination therein, so be it. Choose the best community to play with, tailored to your expectations, and you should have a good time.
Yeah, that's true enough, and with the way that they're setting up the server stuff, it probably won't be a huge issue (at least not at first). And maybe instead of dev support, someone will make a mod instead.
 
Like many games, Kos be an issue for new players and people without gear. Can also prevent them from trying again.
Myself, a survival veteran. I'm happy with no kos and maps that have hot zones, more dangerous areas with higher loot gain.
I don't mind kos servers too. I'm very used to dying and killing in these games.
However, if these zombies are as dangerous as said. That too, will help no kos. If anyone shoots. We're all dead.
Would be a fun experience.
I am only concerned with one thing, one type of person, supposed to be a player.
The type that ruined games of the past. H1z1, dayz back in the day. Nether n nether spawn. Escape from tarkov, lesser issue now, but still experience it on occasion. Bloody HACKERS!!!! Please don't play this game
 

Zom2D2

Well-known member
yes, regardless of the KOSers, hackers are the ones that ruin things the most. I don't mind a large base, but when you build up in under a day and it's a freakin' castle that spans across the roads and neighborhoods? No thank you. Hackers are a little easier to deal with directly, though -- flying, hiding under the map, seeing through walls? The list goes on, man.

I've played a few of those games, and I'm not a stranger to being killed, or starting over from nothing, but again, I can't abide people who make it a point to just kill other people over and over and over again, or run around and do nothing by try to kill everyone. I understand that it's fun to go crazy once in a while, but there's a limit to just having fun when it goes into causing problems for everyone else.

I know that it won't be all servers. I get that.

I'm just for preventative measures vs. reactive ones.

Either way,I'm going to play the game, and I'll still have fun.
 
yes, regardless of the KOSers, hackers are the ones that ruin things the most. I don't mind a large base, but when you build up in under a day and it's a freakin' castle that spans across the roads and neighborhoods? No thank you. Hackers are a little easier to deal with directly, though -- flying, hiding under the map, seeing through walls? The list goes on, man.

I've played a few of those games, and I'm not a stranger to being killed, or starting over from nothing, but again, I can't abide people who make it a point to just kill other people over and over and over again, or run around and do nothing by try to kill everyone. I understand that it's fun to go crazy once in a while, but there's a limit to just having fun when it goes into causing problems for everyone else.

I know that it won't be all servers. I get that.

I'm just for preventative measures vs. reactive ones.

Either way,I'm going to play the game, and I'll still have fun.
Yeah I agree, the grievers we call them too. As KOS to me is situational, depending on where I am, what I have, how many ppl KOS to me recently lol, as can make me on edge n likely to do it, expecting them to try on me.
And the situation, did they speak? Are they following me? Seem friendly? I try my best not to.
But campers are the worst. Apart from the hackers.
Usually very well geared, long range guns, covering a common area of spawns or trails. Not even KOS just camped by a douche bag.
It would be hard to govern a KOSer or Camper, what would you suggest?
 

Zom2D2

Well-known member
Yeah I agree, the grievers we call them too. As KOS to me is situational, depending on where I am, what I have, how many ppl KOS to me recently lol, as can make me on edge n likely to do it, expecting them to try on me.
And the situation, did they speak? Are they following me? Seem friendly? I try my best not to.
But campers are the worst. Apart from the hackers.
Usually very well geared, long range guns, covering a common area of spawns or trails. Not even KOS just camped by a douche bag.
It would be hard to govern a KOSer or Camper, what would you suggest?
Well, like I said, most of the time the KOS / Campers / Grievers that are doing it to annoy people take the persons stuff for themselves. I'm not opposed to people taking things, you can't prevent that and still have a fair/real game, but you can make it worthless in monetary value to factions. Like in Skyrim, most vendors will not (initially. I realize there is a perk you can earn) let you sell stolen goods. I think that if the stolen goods were just usable and not sellable, it would cut down on the incentive.

Additionally, GTAV (as we all know) has a problem with people doing this just to do it. Their system to govern this is to not only mark the players that are going psychotic, but if it happens too much, they get pushed to servers with like-minded players. I realize that different servers will have different options, and that's fine. I don't really want to play on a server that doesn't allow ANY PvP, but if I have to start doing PvE only, I will do so, I guess. I'd rather have some kind of threshold of kills per x amount of time. Because yeah, you might be fighting another group, but if you're killing 60 people in an hour, you're probably not playing the game, you're just killing people.

Again, I'm sure they have their ways of dealing with stuff already...and until we get to Early Access, it's going to be hard to deal with anything other than bugs/exploits/etc, so I'm not really expecting hardcore response to people giving others a bad time. What I wish to be isn't always what will be, and that's a fact of life.
 
Well, like I said, most of the time the KOS / Campers / Grievers that are doing it to annoy people take the persons stuff for themselves. I'm not opposed to people taking things, you can't prevent that and still have a fair/real game, but you can make it worthless in monetary value to factions. Like in Skyrim, most vendors will not (initially. I realize there is a perk you can earn) let you sell stolen goods. I think that if the stolen goods were just usable and not sellable, it would cut down on the incentive.

Additionally, GTAV (as we all know) has a problem with people doing this just to do it. Their system to govern this is to not only mark the players that are going psychotic, but if it happens too much, they get pushed to servers with like-minded players. I realize that different servers will have different options, and that's fine. I don't really want to play on a server that doesn't allow ANY PvP, but if I have to start doing PvE only, I will do so, I guess. I'd rather have some kind of threshold of kills per x amount of time. Because yeah, you might be fighting another group, but if you're killing 60 people in an hour, you're probably not playing the game, you're just killing people.

Again, I'm sure they have their ways of dealing with stuff already...and until we get to Early Access, it's going to be hard to deal with anything other than bugs/exploits/etc, so I'm not really expecting hardcore response to people giving others a bad time. What I wish to be isn't always what will be, and that's a fact of life.
I know what you meant regarding the losers that do this. I hope they can n do monitor it. Modded or custom servers will each have their own desires and rules in place. Like in dayz. That game, as boring as it may be nowadays, is pretty hacker free. From what I've seen.
It takes time to get them to an acceptable level. Punishments in place should be severe for hackers n well enough of a deterrent to the campers n grievers. Initially I'm expecting they'll run loose and cause big problems, til things are ironed out.
Hopefully we're wrong and people want to play this game as it's intended. As I always will.
Very excited n can't wait to see how it goes on launch.
Hopefully not a crappy launch like Scum, another hacker/ grievers paradise.
 
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